Speaker 1:
Welcome to TD Cowen Insights, a space that brings leading thinkers together to share insights and ideas shaping the world around us. Join us as we converse with the top minds who are influencing our global sectors.
Oliver Chen:
Welcome to the Retail Visionaries Podcast series, where we spotlight bold thinkers and the brands reshaping the future of retail. I'm Oliver Chen, TD Cowen's New Platform Retail and Luxury Analyst. In this episode, we're diving into the world of performance skincare with purpose, and the story of how one founder built a cult brand rooted in science, skin health, and intention.
We're excited to welcome Nicolas Travis, the Founder and CEO of Allies of Skin. Nicolas is a trained biomedical and pharmaceutical science expert. He launched Allies of Skin with a single mission, to deliver smart, multifunctional skincare that works hard without over complicating the routine. Allies of Skin is redefining skincare for today's conscious consumer, offering clinically effective formulas, minimalist routines and transparency across 35 countries globally. Nicolas, it's a pleasure to have you here.
Nicolas Travis:
Thank you, Oliver. It is so great to be here.
Oliver Chen:
So, tell us about your founding story. What inspired you to create Allies of Skin?
Nicolas Travis:
So mine's a pretty personal one. So when I was 19, I had a really severe accident where I smashed my face and I needed to have reconstructive surgery. I picked what I thought was a good surgeon, but he ended up butchering my face. So I had multiple infections, I had necrosis where the infection was eating the flesh of my skin.
It was after six botched surgeries and a failed suicide attempt that I needed to see a therapist, and my therapist said, "Okay, let's assume you have to be here. Let's make a list of all the things you want to accomplish by the time you're 30. What does that list look like?" And it was then that I realized if I was hating myself every day, crawling out my skin every day, then maybe other people would. If I could somehow channel that pain, and it just so happened that my background's in biomedical and pharmaceutical science, into creating products that would help people with their scars and help people feel more confident and more fearless in their skin, then my pain would have been worth it.
And it was also during this time when I discovered regenerative active ingredients, such as epidermal growth factors and copper tripeptide, that really help or ignited that healing process for me. It was during that time when my doctor said, "Hey, you really have to take care of your skin because if you don't, we won't have as many options to fix the dents and the holes on your face." So that was really what ignited this journey.
I started in 2016 in Singapore, which is three products, because that was all the money I had. And then now we are, like you said, in 36 countries and we've been nine years in the business.
Oliver Chen:
Congrats, Nicolas. What were your first three products and what are your hero products, in terms of what you're most famous for?
Nicolas Travis:
Yeah, so our first three products was the Retinol Night Cream. So back in 2016, retinaldehyde was not very common, and so we were one of first few brands that really used this very novel innovative ingredient and encapsulated it. So this gives all the benefits without any of the traditional irritation or the need to acclimate to it. And then we have our Molecular Saviour Probiotics Mist that is anti-evaporation. So we use a special water molecule that's designed to cling to your skin cells and withstand the traditional rate of evaporation. And then our first product was the Peptides and Antioxidants Firming Daily Treatment, that is still our number one best-selling moisturizer today.
But today, our number one hero skew is the Growth Factors Serum. That's the multi-peptides and GF, GF for growth factors advanced lifting serum. We launched it in 2023, and honestly it really took us by surprise because it was five years in the making because it was actually really difficult to kind of stabilize it and figure out what supporting hero ingredients too that will play well with the growth factors. So we have a 3% concentration, which for us is maxed out and we put other hero ingredients to really boost the efficacy of the growth factors. And this has really surprised us in many ways because it's sold out seven times. The last time at sold out we had a 12,000 wait list. It's our number one acquisition tool on Amazon. And it retails for $188, which by no means is a accessibly priced product.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah, I've been using it, it's great. I really like it and it's very efficacious. You mentioned a few important topics, peptides and growth factors. For those who don't know about it, what are these ingredients and what do they do?
Nicolas Travis:
Yeah, so growth factors and peptides are basically just amino acids. So amino acids are building blocks of protein, and I kind of think of peptides and growth factors as personal trainers for your skin. So they really go in and if, just working out, you have to work out consistently. If you use peptides and growth factors consistently, they basically help stimulate various things like collagen production, elastin production. They help your cells communicate better, and they also help to lift and firm and plump the skin over time. Just like how with the personal trainer, you will feel like your muscles being stronger, looking bigger, basically helping your skin and all the different collagen look better and feel better.
Oliver Chen:
Why have growth factors been so popular lately? What's been driving that? And how do you think about innovation? I know you're very creative and you're balancing science and effectiveness all the time.
Nicolas Travis:
I think it's because if you look at Instagram or if you look at TikTok, there've been a huge wave of everybody trying to do a lot of undetectable surgery. So, facelifts are the new thing, like ponytail lift is the new thing. And with that, that comes with people wanting to kind of look fresher, juicier, plumper, and a lot of in-office treatments are now no longer taboo. So, people are starting to realize that, hey, if I get PRP treatments, which is basically what happens when a practitioner draws out blood, spins it, and then injects growth factors back to your skin. If I go to the derm office every month to do that, what do I do in between those sessions? So they're like, can we bottle that up and can I use that at home? So, I think that's what kick started, I guess, the trend or the interest in growth factors.
And for us, what's really exciting for Allies is that last year I found a pharmaceutical drug company that basically specializes in sort of creating exosomes for the delivery of difficult drugs. And I can't reveal too much, but long story short, they're creating custom exosomes for us that really help to help us to deliver these growth factors like 40 times deeper into the skin, so we're very excited.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah, that's another great topic, Nicolas, exosomes. And how would you compare and contrast what that means relative to growth factors? And there's different types in terms of synthetic versus natural.
Nicolas Travis:
Exosomes are basically delivery transport vesicles, which means they're delivery systems. If depending on what your source is, you can have human derived exosomes, you can have plant-based exosomes, you can have biotech exosomes. These exosomes essentially are supposed to contain things like mRNA, amino acids, various vitamins, nutrients, also a little bit of growth factors. And they're supposed to transport it into the skin to help kickstart the rejuvenation process, which is why you use exosomes post micro needling, post lasers because they help speed up recovery. And exosomes are also known to improve cellular communication. So for example, if your skin is looking sluggish, an exosome is supposed to help freshen that process up. Basically like a hard reset, like a PC, you hard reset your PC, that's what you do when you use exosomes.
And in terms of just growth factors, growth factors in and of it itself, there are just active ingredients. With growth factors, you can put them in exosomes, you can use them together with exosomes. I actually think that when you have trendy ingredients such as growth factors, people sometimes forget that I don't think there's a panacea for active ingredients because there is not one hero ingredient that will check multiple boxes. So for example, growth factors are really great for stimulating collagen production, improving the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, plumping the skin, but they're really not good for brightening the skin or helping with melasma or helping with acne. So there are certain limitations, so it's truly not a be-all, end-all. And I think the best way to approach formulation is to use growth factors at an optimal percentage, but then also at other supporting hero ingredients so that you can tackle multiple concerns at the same time.
Oliver Chen:
Great, thank you for that, very helpful. Allies of Skin is known for being science-led and no-nonsense. How would you define what sets your brand apart? As you know, it's very competitive in skincare.
Nicolas Travis:
It is actually really competitive. I was on Amazon yesterday looking at all the Prime Day sales just to see what people are doing, and it is so competitive. But for us, honestly, our ethos has always been to make skincare more human. Because of what I went through, there've been a lot of trauma, and what we really try to do with the brand is sort of be that safe space for your skincare mistakes.
And you're absolutely right when you say that the industry is super saturated, because honestly, everybody has access to the same active ingredients, right? Everybody can go find an exosome lab, everybody can find the same peptide manufacturer. We all have access to the same vitamin C. But I kind of think of formulation in a little bit like baking, just like how everybody can easily find a chocolate cake recipe, it doesn't mean the chocolate cake will taste the same. And I think it's the way that we combine certain ingredients, it's the way we use delivery system. It's also the way that we put finishing touches on how the brand makes other people feel. And I think at the end of the day, everything that we do is infused with the intention and the energy that we do it with. And the reason why we have incredibly sticky customers is I think we're also a brand that makes people feel really good. And we also are a brand that helps people feel like they're part of something bigger.
And so it's innovation one part, but then it's also creating this space where people can just DM me for example, I'll DM the brand and we can create a routine. And it's funny, because when I first started I only had three products. And back in the day I didn't have a full routine to prescribe to people. So people would write in with their cleanser, for example, or their sunscreen and they're asking me what they should use first and all that and I'll put together routines for them. We've been doing the same thing. So it's never about pushing our products, but really honestly just anybody can write in, and we have a really great team that helps people build routines. And I do the same as well, and it doesn't have to be from Allies of Skin. So, that's what we do first.
Oliver Chen:
I do talk about, Nicolas, the differences in skincare versus other categories. What are your thoughts on the S-curve in skincare and how long it takes to acquire and retain customers and what customers are looking for that set this category apart for those newer to that?
Nicolas Travis:
That's such a great question, Oliver. I think for us, because we're also priced a little bit more expensive, that's when the expectation curve, just the weight of the expectation is a lot higher because people, if they're paying say $188, will want to see results in two weeks. So for us, I always say we base it upon clinical studies. So before we launch every product, we always do clinical studies. We do a 28-day study, and then we do a 56-day study. And by 28 days you will see results, and by 56 days you'll see even better results. And we actually have a really great returns policy or an exchange policy. And at the end of the day, I'm not doing this to honestly make a quick buck, I'm doing this to, because it's the only thing I want to do in my life. So for me, it's less about selling a product. I mean, if something doesn't work for somebody, it doesn't work for somebody. But we always say that it takes at least four to six weeks to really convert a customer.
Oliver Chen:
You built a loyal customer base, Nicolas. What's your secret to attention and trust and how do you manage your community? We often talk about social commerce and this two-way conversation with customers being so important to innovation.
Nicolas Travis:
Yeah. For us, I think of the time when I was a teenager with really severe acne and I found the entire process of shopping for products really daunting and intimidating. And I always want people to feel like they can access the brand. And I think it's in our name, right? Even though we have a lot of, even though we sell $200 serums, and even though we are like for example, the exclusive skincare partner for Oscar de la Renta and ALO Yoga, I never want to be a brand that makes people feel like can't sit with us. In fact, it's the contrary. We always try to make people feel like everybody can sit at our table, and that's really what we do.
So for example, internally we have monthly listening programs where we reach out to customers when you ask them, "Hey, how do you feel about this campaign? Or how do you feel about this new innovation? Do you like it? Do you not like it?" So we listen to our customers. We also have a loyalty program, where I have one-on-one 30-minute sessions with customers and we really just go through their routines. We talk about whatever they want to talk, and this really gives me a lot of insights about how our loyal customers perceive the brand. And also more importantly, it's about having a discussion about, "Hey, what do you think about a Black Friday sale? What do you buy?" I'm really curious how people purchase and what they look out for.
And it's during these times where I actually form a bond with our customers that, for example, we've got a super fan in, she's Singaporean but she lives in the UK now, and she'll come to every event that we do. And the last time I saw her, she showed me a spreadsheet, she had like 67 backup products of Allies of Skin. She showed me the Excel spreadsheet and I was like, "What? You don't need 67 backup products." She's like, "Yeah, I never want to run out." So it's that, it's that. I feel like they feel this deep connection with the brand and it really is very grassroots right now, and I'll keep doing that as much as I can.
Oliver Chen:
Nicolas, also, what trends are you seeing among skincare consumers right now, routines, ingredient education, values? And how are you evolving?
Nicolas Travis:
I actually don't believe in following trends. I think what... And it's been really interesting the last year because as the brand grows, and I'm very happy to say that as the brand grows, we capture a more mature demographic, which is really great for us, that has more spending power.
So for example, our best two selling serums are the Growth Factor Serum and our Copper Tripeptide Advanced Repair Serum. Now copper tripeptide, it's really great for reducing inflammation, and we also have an active in there that has been shown in clinical studies to really thicken the epidermis of perimenopausal and menopausal people. So, we are able to capture that segment because I don't think it's a segment that a lot of brands speak to. I think usually when you think about a trendy brand, they usually go after sort of more like the Gen Z's or the younger millennials. They kind of leave the ones who are the boomers out there, and that's what we try not to do. And so with this, we're starting to see, we're starting to attract a lot of, I guess, women who are going through this period of time and they're starting to want incredible solutions.
But then also, honestly, Oliver, it's really refreshing because they will do whatever you tell them to do. You give them a routine, no matter how long, they'll just buy the entire routine. And they're like, "Great, I will follow," and it's really great because I think they're also at a stage in their lives where they don't really follow trends. They're not on social media trying to figure out what's new, and then they don't switch so easy, they just find something that truly works for them. And it's been honestly really, really great.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah, that's interesting and also, that's great for efficacy. Nicolas, as you expand into major retailers around the world, what's happening there? And you have some exciting announcements in the US as well. How do you maintain brand consistency while still adapting appropriately?
Nicolas Travis:
I think honestly, it's a moving train. And I think that it's about having the right collaborative relationship with the account managers and the retailers.
For example, what works in India with Tira, and which owned by Reliance, they're our distributor, may not work for Sephora UK or Mecca, for example. So we have really great relationships. I'm very fortunate that we're supported by really incredible retailers. For example, with Cult Beauty, we were told that we're the fastest growing skincare brand on Cult Beauty. We're growing triple digits every month on Dermstore. In the US, we are growing so incredibly well. We have Nordstrom, we have Neiman Marcus, we're launching Violet Gray. We're making slow but really considerable process in the US. But honestly in the US also, we are growing, we're really doubling down on our DTC and Amazon, and also TikTok shop. So for example, in the last six months, we grew 500% just on Amazon alone, and we're growing triple digits on our DTC. So, it's really bullish for us.
And it's also being, as I say, being in the kitchen with these retailers and having briefly touch base calls and really figuring out, okay, if we have to do sampling and we don't have money to do five deluxe kits, then how do we best play? And it's about honestly listening to them. Right? So if they give us advice, we just follow. It's actually not, it's not that difficult. It's just like, okay, you just tell us what to do and we'll do it. But of course, you have to know, you play to your strength, right? And you also have to be like, "Hey, actually I think this is too much of a budget." But what we try to do, because we also run our own media ads, we also have our own influencer team in houses on all affiliates, we do a lot of affiliates. So we're able to pivot quite quickly.
So for example, if we need to buy ads to support a retailer or a campaign, we'll be able to shift that. We also have our own in-house creative team that'll be able to create assets very quickly, which I'm very grateful for.
Oliver Chen:
Nicolas, that's really interesting topics. Who is the Amazon and TikTok customer? How might you compare and contrast them? And what do you think about balancing that, relative to your other channels and new customers or cannibalization?
Nicolas Travis:
That's such a great question, so I'm going to unpack it. We only started with TikTok shop this year, so I don't have as much data as I do on Amazon. So, I'll speak more about Amazon, honestly, because also with TikTok shop, the price point's a little bit trickier, because given the fact that our, well, one product, it's a growth factor serum, it's $188. That may not be an instant buy on TikTok shop. But for example, with Amazon, I think people love shopping at Amazon so much, including myself, simply because of the Prime shipping. Like no, I can get it the next day and it's so convenient. And you could buy magnesium salts, you can buy your protein powder, you can also buy your growth factor serum, and that convenience is something that I don't think you can put a price on.
So for us, I think we have to meet the customer where he or she or they shop, right? I think it's left pocket, right pocket. I don't think you should ever bring fans and be like, "Hey, I think you should only shop on our website." Right? I don't think that's how it works anymore, and we'll just meet the customer where they want to shop.
Oliver Chen:
Nicolas, across these channels, we've had many discussions with many C-suite. What are some general margin considerations across different channels, whether it be Amazon, direct to consumer, or wholesale, as you're balancing margin mix?
Nicolas Travis:
Okay, so I can tell you that for us, when it comes to DTC, we really strive for at least 90%, like 90% margin off of DTC. And then of course, you have certain fees. With Amazon, you have agency fees and things like that. But I would say to start, let's start the website because it's the easiest, 90% is what I would aim for, and that's what we really try to do. But of course, that's it, that's it.
For example, let's take our SPF for example. Our SPF is $45, and it's so difficult to formulate a elegant, luxurious feeling SPF and sell it for really, really cheap. And the problem or the issue with, that the US is our number market, is that we have to formulate with US filters. And I believe there are only seven US FDA approved filters, which are very old, very oily, very greasy. So, everybody's trying to spin the wheel and it's just really expensive to create SPF. So, sometimes we take a margin hit on specific products because I could sell my SPF for $60, but honestly, who would top up and buy a regular $60 SPF? So, it's things like that. So at the end of the day, if I can balance everything out and make it close to as 90 as possible, that would be really great. Because for example, our best-selling serums, they are like 94%.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah, the SPF is great, it feels really-
Nicolas Travis:
Thank you.
Oliver Chen:
... clean and goes on really nicely. So, it's been great to be using as well.
Nicolas Travis:
Yeah, it's been hit for us.
Oliver Chen:
We've been talking about this for a decade, but what about clean and clinical? What do those terms mean and what do you think is misunderstood?
Nicolas Travis:
I honestly, the truth is, I don't think they mean anything. I think clean especially, there is no definition for it. And I think sometimes it's the dose that makes the poison, right? For example, if I have a gluten allergy and you don't, Oliver, and if I have celiac disease, for example, and I can't take gluten, gluten is poisonous to me but it's not poisonous to you. Right? So it's clean for you, but it's not clean for me, so that's the difference.
But I also think with clinical, I think it's about the percentages. It's about the ingredients used and the percentages you use. And for us, I also think it's a way that the brand is positioned as in how it looks, how it feels. I don't think there's any definition of what a clinical skincare brand is. I think it's really why it's down to how you want to tell your brand story, honestly, at the end of the day. And these are all more brand positioning than anything.
Oliver Chen:
Nicolas, your background is also differentiated and interesting. How has your background in science influenced how you lead? How has your own leadership style changed over the years?
Nicolas Travis:
If we think about in science, an antioxidant is basically something that lands an electron to a free radical and neutralizes it and stabilizes it, and that's really what I aspire to do. I aspire to hold a space for people to be brilliant. And I'm very fortunate to have been surrounded and have been able to attract people who are more brilliant than me in specific topics. And that's the way that I hire and that's the culture that we have. Right? We have a no (beep) policy, and honestly, we just really, really have fun. And we're really tight, we're on Teams all the time.
And at the end of the day, I always think of if the roles will reverse when I hire somebody, would I want to work for the other person? So, that's the way that I decide who, how to hire. In an alternate universe, would I want that person? Would I be able to work under that person? So that's the way that we build it. And honestly, I just also think of, can I laugh with this person? Can I laugh and eat protein with this person? That's just as simple as it gets.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah, I've laughed with you a lot, and eating protein with you a lot. So what, Nicolas, how did you name this company? And also, I do really appreciate your newer packaging and what you've done with the brand. What were some inspiration as you thought when you relaunched packaging, etc?
Nicolas Travis:
Yeah, so I don't think a brand is static, right? I think a brand develops, and I think we're also in the process of leveling up the brand. So I'm very excited, more to come at the end of the year. But I think the name came to me when I was brushing my teeth, and I don't think anybody can go through life without having people who have their backs. And I find the word allies to be really, really powerful. And again, it stemmed from my experience with having no money and no experience trying to shop for products in a honestly, really daunting and intimidating space. And I just quickly felt like there should be a brand that made people feel safe, and that's why we really aspire to do. And so it trickles into every touch point that we have.
And one of the things that I'm really proud of was that when we launched our Copper Tripeptide Serum, the one that's really great for reducing inflammation and menopausal and menopausal skin types, we worked with a burn charity and we gave the spotlight to brilliant burn survivors where they shared their healing journey. And it was one of them that her content did really, really well and it caught the attention of a charity who basically relocated her to LA and they paid for $250,000 of surgeries with a top Beverly Hills plastic surgeon. And we later found out it was her ex-husband that set her on fire. And then she told me, she says, "Nick, if I wasn't part of your campaign telling my story, I would never have this new face."
And then that, Oliver, at that moment, that was when everything really made sense for me. That was when I was like, okay, I think this is a full circle moment for me, this is why I am doing what I'm doing. Because I think for so many years I've spent a lot of time trying to, thinking of what my life would be like if all my surgeries had gone well or what would my life be like if I had surgeons that truly cared about me and not the six botched surgeries that I had to undergo. And now I get to help somebody find the best surgeons, now I get to help somebody really rebuild their life, and that is very precious to me.
Oliver Chen:
Thanks for sharing that, Nicolas. Last question. For someone new to Allies of Skin, what's the one product you'd recommend, and any closing remarks you may have as well?
Nicolas Travis:
I would recommend the Growth Factor Serum, simply because honestly, it's a one-and-done product, which means you can use it around the face, the eye area, and the neck. And so you can also pair it with any of your favorite moisturizers, you can use it day and night. It plays well with all active ingredients. So, it truly is a versatile product. So it plumps, it rejuvenates, it repairs the skin, and you can use it post lasers, post chemical peels, on sunburns, because growth factors are really great, I also know for wound healing.
And I honestly would like to say that when it comes to just taking care, when it comes to just skincare in general, beauty in general, I've learned throughout my healing journey that when you feel good, that's when everything starts making sense. So for me, it's about prioritizing feeling good now, which means setting boundaries, saying no, only hanging out with people that I can laugh and eat protein with. It's just simple things like that that actually improves the quality of your life. So, I think ditch the expensive creams and just start by having boundaries and choosing yourself first. That's the best thing to do.
Oliver Chen:
Well, Nicolas, it's been really a joy to spend time with you. We talked a lot about science, your story, what skincare means, efficacy and innovation, as well as an amazing perspective on community building and thinking about purpose too. Thanks for your time, Nicolas.
Nicolas Travis:
Thank you, Oliver, for having me.
Speaker 1:
Thanks for joining us. Stay tuned for the next episode of TD Cowen Insights.
