Secrets to Customer Centricity and Elite Storytelling with Consello
Guests: Mindy Grossman, Partner & Vice Chair, Consello, and Janey Whiteside, Partner & Chief Growth Officer, Consello
Host: Oliver Chen, Retail & Luxury Analyst, TD Cowen
This episode features Mindy Grossman, Partner & Vice Chair of Consello, and Janey Whiteside, Partner & Chief Growth Officer of Consello. These executive leaders with experience across multiple consumer sectors share secrets for achieving customer centricity and discuss the need for calculated risk taking to drive successful transformation. We also explore how retailers can get ahead of evolving customer needs.
Chapters: | |
---|---|
2:00 | Secrets to Successful Execution |
5:05 | Defining Today's Customer Trends |
6:28 | Brand Storytelling, Differentiation and Relevance |
11:29 | Balancing Customer Touchpoints |
13:24 | Key Components to the Next Great Retail Model |
15:20 | Evolution of Community Retail |
20:00 | The Future of Brand Partnerships |
25:25 | Critical Components to Loyalty Programs |
29:00 | Evolution of Social Selling |
35:00 | Underappreciated Artificial Intelligence |
42:00 | Key Themes for 2025 |
This podcast was recorded on December 17, 2025.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to TD Cowen Insights, a space that brings leading thinkers together to share insights and ideas shaping the world around us. Join us as we converse with the top minds who are influencing our global sectors.
Oliver Chen:
Secrets to achieving the most customer centricity, the best brands and customer experiences. Tell stories and evolve with changing customer needs. The future of retail demands transformative change today. And I'm here with two major experts and friends in C-suite Visionaries, Mindy Grossman and Janey Whiteside.
Mindy is a vice chair at Consello, which is an advisory and investing platform, and Janey is a partner and chief growth officer at Consello. Welcome to the latest edition of TD Cowen's Retail Visionary podcast series, a podcast about visionary ideas and people. I'm Oliver Chen, TD Cowen's retail, luxury, and new platforms retail analyst.
Mindy Grossman is a partner and vice chair of Consello. Prior to Consello, Mindy served as president and CEO of Weight Watchers International, CEO of the Home Shopping Network and global vice president at Nike, as well as President and CEO of Polo Jeans Company. She also served as chairperson of the National Retail Federation.
Janey Whiteside is a partner and chief growth officer of Consello. Prior to Consello, Janey served as Walmart's first chief customer officer, where she was recognized as an industry leader and architect of the Walmart Plus membership program and Walmart Connect media retail business, among several other leading innovations. Prior to Walmart, Janey spent 20 years at American Express.
Mindy and Janey, it's really a pleasure to have you both here. Thank you for your time.
Mindy Grossman:
Yes, thrilled to be with my favorite people.
Janey Whiteside:
Thank you.
Oliver Chen:
So we'll dive right in. What are your secrets to success? You've both had an incredible track record of leadership and successful execution. What would you say are some of your highlights in achieving this? Mindy, I'll let you kick it off.
Mindy Grossman:
Sure. One thing I've always thought about, especially because I really love transformation, it's this idea of, how do you marry expansive vision with radical focus? The second thing is I've always been willing to take risks, and embrace change and not fear it. And usually not taking a risk, especially in this environment, is riskier than taking the risk and being able to have pivot capabilities. And as you and I have talked about, I've always been consumer-obsessed. And whether that's feeling like I need to be the customer, but in today's environment, everything comes back from that. And then, how do you build a culture, not just a company? I've been known to say, "Culture trumps strategy." Doesn't mean you don't have a terrific strategy, but you have to have an aligned culture that is going to be able to create extraordinary alignment, and allow you to attract extraordinary people, and build incredible relationships.
Oliver Chen:
Janey, I've always known you as a very customer-centric leader. What are your thoughts on your secrets to success?
Janey Whiteside:
Yeah, look, I think drafting off what Mindy said, I'd say it's a couple of things. One is, you have to really spend the time and dig in on what your current and or future customers really want and need, and why. Why do they want it? Why do they need it? What are you solving, and how do you deliver it to them? In the Walmart world, that's about lifting cognitive load for people, right, when they've got a lot of decisions making. But you've got to walk in their shoes, and there is no substitute for spending the time to walk in the shoes of your customers. And importantly to that, to Mindy's point about building great teams, you have to have teams that look and feel like the customers you are or you want to serve. You can't have a group of people who are diametrically opposed to the customers you want to serve, because you're never going to walk in their shoes. You're never going to really understand what the customers want. That's one.
And two, I would say, and I say it a lot, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something. And ,what you say no to is equally as important as what you say yes to. And I think in this world we've all seen too many companies, brands, people out there doing a range of things... Why would they do that? And I think that's either because they don't really understand the customers the right way, or they can do something so they've just decided to do it. I think selectivity and being really focused on the things that matter and doing those excellently is what's most important.
Oliver Chen:
Janey, on your comment on walking in the shoes of customers, what customer trends excite you the most currently and what you're seeing in the marketplace?
Janey Whiteside:
I continue to be excited about instant gratification, right? How do you get product to customers almost instantaneously? And if you can do that, that's completing the purchase, right? We've seen conversational commerce, we're seeing TikTok, we're seeing social players, we're seeing connected TV. People see something... I see my kids, they see something somebody's wearing on TV, and they want to buy it in that moment. I really like the fact that the decision-making is coming right towards the customer. And more than that, I'm excited about the capacity to be able to actually get that product to the customer in five minutes. Five hours, not five days, or five weeks.
And I'm really excited about the ability to be able to kind of break the paradigm whilst the high end of luxury is obviously doing well. I'm really excited about the ability to be able to get ostensibly the same thing to many people at scale in different ways. And so the rise of the dupe, the rise of the available item for the mass really intrigues me, because I think it's really breaking the way that we think about, what does product look like, what does luxury look like, and how do you bring that to market and price it.
Oliver Chen:
Mindy, we've talked often about storytelling and the importance of crafting a story. How can retailers differentiate themselves in this manner, and how do you interrelate this to what's happening now with instant gratification and social media?
Mindy Grossman:
I think it's marrying that instant gratification to customization and personalization, and people feeling like they're valued. And I've always felt that storytelling is a core necessary in business, particular for your brand and to all your stakeholders, to your employees, to your customers, to your shareholders. How do you craft a story that either creates belief, creates obsession with the brand, creates understanding of what that brand is going to do for you, and creates a narrative that gets accentuated as other people talk about you? And I think it's more important today than ever, because there's so much noise and so much distraction, that the more articulate you can be about telling your story, and whether that's through content, whether that's through product, whether that's through marketing and articulation, is more important than ever.
Oliver Chen:
Mindy, what do you think are some of the major challenges that people are facing in telling stories? And also, what's your advice for innovation in terms of telling stories today, and maintaining relevance? Brands can come in and out very quickly.
Mindy Grossman:
Well, I'm going to pick up on something Janey said, because I believe as a core tenet as well, you have to decide what not to do. It's more important than what you decide to do. And it really is important, in this environment, that when you are telling a story, whether that's a campaign or anything else, you have to understand the difference between being connected and perhaps provocative, but you can never be polarizing. And we've seen too much of that, particularly over the last number of years, that people are forgetting that yes, you may want to gain new audience, but you want to keep the loyal people that you have. To your other point on technology, I think what companies have to be thinking of is, are they moving quickly enough to have their employees, their capabilities, really understanding and keeping up with the pace of technology? And whether that's AI, in AR, whatever is relevant to you as a brand, you have to be in front of it, or you will be left behind.
Oliver Chen:
Can we dive further into provocative versus polarizing? What would you say are the differences, and doesn't a brand always have to stand for something? If you're not differentiated, then it becomes very hard.
Mindy Grossman:
Oh, I'm not saying that you shouldn't be differentiated. If you think of all of the personalities and entertainment partnerships that I had at HSN, or if you think of the ambassadors and who we had at WW, you really have to think about your brand first, who is aligned with your brand, who is genuine, who is going to potentially bring in new audience, but they're also going to be embraced by the audience that you have, and that is tantamount to growth.
What I mean by polarizing, if you become polarizing, you lose both, potentially. And it takes a very long time, a very long time, to change once you've gone down a road. And you also have to understand how far you could test the parameters. Not every brand is created equal, right? If you're an edgy brand, it might be one thing. If you're a conservative brand, you have to think about what is authentic, what is going to be genuine. And if the idea is to create a relationship with the audience, you have to be able to do that for existing and for new.
Oliver Chen:
Got it. That's very helpful and insightful. Janey, on your earlier comments, we talked about customer touch points pre and post-purchase. How should retailers approach this, as well as balancing service as well as magic?
Janey Whiteside:
Look, I think it's about... To Mindy's point, I mean it's personalization done right all the time. Pre, during, post and back to the follow-up. So how do you demonstrate that you understand the customer before they purchase? I would argue that you do that by being the places where they're going to be. And so understanding how they're consuming information and data, and making sure that you are showing up in the right places in order to be able to be in the consideration set. Leading them through the journey. As you do that, I would argue, personalization there is letting them shop on their terms, right? Whether that's in-person, digitally, being able to deliver it five minutes, five hours, five weeks. And then following back up to be able to help provide services or upsells, or other things that brings people back round. So it becomes a customer flywheel as opposed to some business flywheel, as we might know, which is about how you pull people around.
But ultimately it really, I mean, it all starts with really knowing your customer, and then making sure that you are showing things the right way. And I think the magical component of that becomes helping them find solutions or products that they may not have known they needed. And that's not necessarily always making them do more, but helping them understand how one-on-one can be three. Particularly as it relates to really being able to give them things that the usual journey may not have pulled them through. So other sorts of recommendations, other ways to be able to save time, other ways to be able to get to the answers that they want.
Oliver Chen:
Mindy, on this theme, which business models do you admire most? What key components will the next great retail business models employ, in your view, and disruptions that you're monitoring?
Mindy Grossman:
So what we're seeing now in retail is, in addition to the conversation we're having around personalization and customization, and I think the power of community is also very important. But I also think there's the emergence of really understanding your consumer, and what more can you give them that they're going to value. So an example I use is, I've been on the board of Fanatics for almost eight years, and here's a business that went from a vertical in commerce, but with a huge fan base, to now being an entirely integrated platform globally, for the sport fan. So that's not only commerce, it's collectibles, it's betting and gaming, it's events, it's content.
So the more you can know your audience, the more you build that fan base, what else can you give them that they are going to love? And Janey is the ultimate expert, but this is where loyalty really comes in. And you look at brands that have done that well, I can use Sephora as an example. I can use Dick's Sporting Goods as an example, right? It's their athlete, it's who they're serving, it's the loyalty that they've built. And they basically become another marketing asset for you.
Oliver Chen:
Mindy, what about community of today, versus call it community of 10 to 20 years ago, in retail? How are they different or similar?
Mindy Grossman:
Well, you look at the platforms that you have today to be able to build community. We have digital platforms, we have social platforms, we have influencers. We have a different level of physical experiences that I think we're going to see, and we already are seeing a reemergence of. Because if you remember, there was a period of time when it's all going to be digital, or it's all going to be something else. And I remember when I was chair of National Retail Federation, I said, "Can we just remember, it's the consumer backwards. We need to be channel agnostic. We need to integrate it into a seamless experience." And I think that's more important today than ever. And it also gives you the capabilities to build more interaction with your community while you are still personalizing and customization their individual experience.
Oliver Chen:
Janey, you were a pioneer at Walmart, and that's one of our favorite ideas, in part because of the retail ecosystem and thinking about the platform more broadly. Can everybody do this? Will this happen at other retailers? And what do you think the secret sauce is for Walmart and others ahead?
Janey Whiteside:
I mean, can everybody do it? Yes. I'm really inspired by the rise of even the smallest retailers that you're seeing out there who can generate, and people lining up for an hour to go to a candy shop, or to go to Pop-Up Bagels, or to get the latest drop from their favorite sportswear brand. And so everybody can create, I think, this fervor. I think the question then becomes, how do you then leverage that more aggressively as you think about it, sort of an end-to-end model? I think the secret is, back to what we said before, how do you give customers what they want, and help make sure that you understand what they want? And that's not just the product, it's the right products at the right price, in the right place at the right time. And if you can solve for that, and I think Walmart has done a phenomenal job, alongside others. I mean, Mindy mentioned Sephora, I think they've done a phenomenal job, as an example.
If you can do that, then you can start to figure out, "Okay, well how do I keep those customers loyal to me?" How do I engage them? How do I give them more for what they're giving me? How can I help encourage them, do more for me by giving them more? And then that allows you to start to think about paid membership programs and other components. It's interesting to me, particularly given my background at American Express, but it's almost taking the ethos of American Express, and an intense loyalty program that brought people back to membership rewards, to always wanting to pay with Amex. We've almost lifted that concept now into loyalty, and not just with points programs in retail, but with experience with paid membership plans. So the ability to access more with the ability to get things back, being able to have different sorts of services. It's really that sort of loyaltification, for want of a better word, of the retail model writ large, I think.
Oliver Chen:
A question for both of you on this topic of innovation. Earlier you spoke to creating products that customers didn't even know they needed or existed. I mean, how do you answer the challenge of innovation more broadly, as you think about all these topics and how to scale them, and how to not be boring, get awesome?
Mindy Grossman:
Well, it goes back to you've got to be willing to create an internal culture of ideation. And whether that ideation is the creation of product, or the ideation is a creation of partnerships, we're seeing a lot of that out there to broaden the base. I was speaking earlier that I'm on the board of VF Corp, and North Face just did a collaboration with Skims, and it sold out in three minutes. Because it was great product, it was authentic, it had performance qualities, so it fit across, and they created a desire. And that's what you want to do, whether you are creating it on your own, and what is the narrative that you are putting out there for that? And to Janey's point, that's when you see the lines around the block on things that are happening.
Oliver Chen:
Diving into that a little more, Mindy, what do you think about the future of partnerships when we think more broadly about wellness and entertainment and sports and music? Also, how do you not be polarizing in a partnership?
Mindy Grossman:
Well, not every partnership is going to work, right? It has to true to the brand, both of your brands. It has to be intuitive. It could surprise people, but then they have to go, "Oh yeah, I get this." And it also has to be where both companies are in that together. And I always say, "You want one plus one to equal exponential 10," and you want to both put the effort in because you believe that this is going to be right for all of your consumers.
And whether that's a partner integrated with entertainment... I remember I had a partnership with Disney for six years at HSN and we launched, we had the launch, pre the movies being in theater, and created product around it, an immersive experience. And it was huge for the consumer that they were getting something unique and different, and getting a glimpse into what was happening. But it was also huge for the partner, because then people wanted to go to the movie theaters and in the seats. And you're seeing that right now. I mean, whether it was the Barbie movie or whether it was Wicked, right? They've become almost phenomenons unto themselves.
Oliver Chen:
Mindy, what about wellness and sports and entertainment? What should we know what's happening there that may not have been happening in the past, or that investors and listeners should think about?
Mindy Grossman:
So I would say if you look at one of the most significant growth areas right now in a lot of business, it definitely is in the world of health, wellness, integrated, whether it's to beauty or really whether it's integrated into true healthcare. I think people are really looking for solutions, and they're also looking for clarity around what is going to be best for them. And I think those that are defining themselves very uniquely are the ones who are going to be successful, and they're creating the relationships with... I mean, you've got a lot of people all of a sudden, the menopause field. I think Midi's doing a great job, in terms of being authentic, understanding consumer, and what they're doing, but you're going to see that integrated into other areas as well. Particularly in sport, in fitness, in all of those areas.
Oliver Chen:
Janey, on this whole topic of experiential retail, how do you currently define what experiential retail means?
Janey Whiteside:
We sort of talk about experiential retail and naturally think about it's the fun pop-up, or like Mindy said, the launch of North Face Skims or something like that. Then yeah, that's right, that's an experience. But I also think there is experiential retail happening digitally. I think you see it in social, right? I mean, I really think it's the totality of, how do you reach in and get back some of that magic, and get some of that desire to want to engage with brands and retailers in different ways. And that can span everything, from some of the stuff that we used to do at Walmart around during COVID. We would do pop-up Halloween, spooky streets in parking lots, or tennis courts in lots, and having people being able to play. Whether that's a unique experience, bringing somebody that you'd never be able to interact with into a store. Popping up new stores, taking things to different places and putting them on the road.
I think any and all of these things can be significantly experiential, and you're seeing more and more now, I mentioned it before, but whether that's shopping live on social, whether that's hosted events, it's almost taking the model that Mindy had in her old days at HSN and sort of deploying it, but in this instantaneous mode, now. That's clearly, that's clear experiential retail, loaded with a voice that you trust. If you've got an influencer or back to health and wellness, you've got somebody that you trust in that space, or a sports person. All of that comes together as an experiential component.
Mindy Grossman:
I do think also the ability to create events to bring people together. So if I look at Fanatics Fest, its first one, Javits Center, 70,000 fans, but they also had an entire retail component to it, and all different experiential opportunities. I think we're going to see more of that as we move forward.
Oliver Chen:
You both helped lead really successful loyalty-driven platforms across Weight Watchers and Walmart plus. What do you see as critical components to loyalty and loyalty programs? Where should retailers and brands invest?
Janey Whiteside:
I'll start Mindy, and then you can add on. I mean, look, I always think that membership loyalty programs need to be aspirational but attainable, right? So you need to be able to aspire to something, but if it's too aspirational, it's too out of reach, then people just give up and don't engage. And so how do you track that balance? And how do you provide enough value back, in any way that you are doing that, to get people to keep coming back because they see that they're going to get something back? In the case of American Express, it's obviously clear, right? You earn points for spending, and you get to redeem those on things.
At Walmart Plus it was about, how do we get underneath things that we know our customers value, and give them more of that? So delivery, at the time, and you'll be able to get free delivery, is really important. Because we knew people wanted delivery, but if you were going to do that two or three or four times a week and you were a loyal shopper, that was going to price you out of your ability to be able to do that. So we knew that that was a key, and then you can build around that with other things that just make your engagement with that company simple.
So I think that's really important. And then I think one future-looking thing, I think we're going to see more and more convergence of membership and retail programs. So you're going to see more and more people come together collectively to say, "A plus B gives you something exponential." Whether that, and you see that if you look at some of the things that airlines are doing, or retailers, or others. Fanatics is another great example of bringing people in, but I think you're going to see a lot more convergence, so that people don't have this sort of myriad of programs that they're trying to figure out where they engage in.
Mindy Grossman:
I would agree with that. You look at Marriott Bonvoy, for example. I get points every time I use an Uber. So I think it's understanding what's going to create value, but what's going to make people feel valued. And that's the number one word I know, Janey, you always use, because that's really what makes people feel they want to be loyal to you because it's not just transactional.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah. That engagement piece, in terms of building community, and also this whole recurring theme of trust and what trust means to different consumers. Mindy, so we're seeing the rise of TikTok Shop, it's been pretty explosive, but HSN might be the OG of creating, like the mall is the original internet. But what are the similarities between TikTok Shop and HSN?
Mindy Grossman:
They're very, very, very similar. And at the end of the day, we're talking about human behavior. I mean, just think about this. TikTok Shop launched in what, September 2023, and now they're doing $16 billion in the US. But having spent 11 years planning a business by minute, in average dollars per minute, and really seeing what triggers human behavior to make a decision to buy, that relationship and how somebody is talking about what that product means to them, and why it might be important to you, and what are those triggers that are going to engage people? That is the beauty of live shopping. It really is. If it's the right person, it's authentic, they're bringing to you what they love or they'll think you love, and they're creating a story and a narrative, so it can connect with you emotionally, so you will make a decision to buy, and that's what's happening.
Oliver Chen:
Janey, what do you see happening with social selling and the evolution of that?
Janey Whiteside:
I was going to say, I think it's going to absolutely continue, as particularly the younger generations... You mentioned trust, right? I think there is so much trust that the younger generations put into the particular individuals that they follow, whether that's a sports person, whether that's a wellness influencer, whether it's a fashion influencer, that their ability to be able to drive a sale to close and to be able to inspire people to make purchases. That's really where they go. I'm old, I used to get Vogue magazine, and flip through Vogue magazine and look at things, and then try and copy it on the high street. These days you don't need to. You go on Instagram and you find your influencer. And so your ability, when somebody is in that mode, to close the sale, I think is only going to continue to grow. And I think, in the case of health and wellness particularly, it would grow even faster, because we're all bombarded now with a million things. How much protein do I need to get? Do I need to take creatine? Do I need to take collagen? Do I need to be... What else do I need to be able to take? To the extent that people are going to be able to get trusted voices to simplify that, and sort of cut through the clutter there. I think that's going to be a real point of continued "In the moment" commerce, it's a trusted source. You get somebody when they're interested, and they're up the mode, and you can close the sale, right at the second.
Mindy Grossman:
I agree 100%. I think to have, and again, in something like health and wellness, you have someone you trust because they have the credibility. Because I use the expression, "When there's an impotence of abundance," when there's just too much stuff, you freeze and you don't do anything. But if somebody can really clarify for you what's real, cut through the noise, you are going to trust them in a different way, and that's going to make you make the purchase.
Oliver Chen:
In this discussion we've been having, how can you tell the difference between something that's timeless versus trendy because, and also are we in a permanent state of high volatility given the way consumers consume trends and cancel trends so quickly?
Mindy Grossman:
I would say you kind of need to have a balance. I think companies that have done it well, whether it be on the fashion side or the footwear side, they've been able to build franchises of items that they continue to evolve. It's not just new everything every season, but the customer keeps coming back to it. I mean, I can't imagine how many pairs of rock studs that Valentino has sold over the last nine years, or what UGG has done at different price points. So I do think that from a creative and merchandising perspective, I think it's really important to evolve to what the consumer... And what's really happening now in the world of AI, our ability to not just look at data backwards, but to use data to indicate what we think, and where the consumer's going, is going to be very important.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah. Janey, what are your thoughts also on de-averaging the consumer? How do you actually get mother, daughter, father, grandson, in terms of targeting and understanding and analyzing, and also making this feel personal for a wide base?
Janey Whiteside:
Yeah, look, I think data, data, data, and data sits underneath this. And to your point, de-averaging means you have to look into the data in painstaking detail, and you can't look at it across an average, right? One. And two, Mindy mentioned an interesting thing. I do think there's a world where you have your core values, you have your core product, you have your core experience that you are driving forward, and you know what your audiences are there. You have to be able to iterate rapidly up the edges, and figure out how you're going to do that differently if you want to be able to capture the next iteration, the trendy or the trend, and to be able to work off that. And if you ride that weight, you've got to be super nimble to be able to do that, right? And so are you in-store, online, watching what's happening? And do you have a capacity, not everywhere, but in certain places to be able to run with that?
So if you see people are bedazzling denim jackets, how do you get the jacket and the bedazzlers out there within 24 hours? You don't have five weeks to be able to do it. How do you pull in and take advantage of that? How do you lean in? And I think you only get that by watching the signals up front, and that's very different than the traditional buying signals that you would be looking at to build long-term ranges. But pick a few places, and try and figure out how you do that. And by the way, that involves looking outside of your home market sometimes, too, and seeing what's happening elsewhere. Because the world is global and local all at the same time. So how do you think about this? But to me, it is all rooted in the data. It's just you need to look at different data signals, and get really deep into what's going on.
Oliver Chen:
For both of you, what is most underappreciated in terms of artificial intelligence, and themes that you think retail leaders should pay more attention to?
Mindy Grossman:
So I would say that in a lot of cases, there needs to be a whole understanding of all of the areas where AI can create positive impact. Whether that's in the supply chain, whether that's in the merchandising process, whether that's in the retail process, whether that's in consumer behavior. I think there has to be a true embrace within an organization, it can't just be relegated to one group. And it really is about making sure your data-driven organizations and people understand the tools that can make their roles more effective, versus fearing that it's going to make your roles disappear.
Janey Whiteside:
And I mean, I think the other piece is, how do you understand the "Why?" not just the "What?" So I think AI helps us understand a lot more of the what, and create connections that one couldn't find before. You look at the data, you start to see connections that weren't immediately apparent before, understanding the "Why?" against those. And then if you go back to the top of our conversation and then understanding, "Okay, well what do we do about that? And where do we want to action against that?" Because again, just because you now see patterns that you didn't see before, does not mean you have to action them. And a lot of that gets back into the "Why?" But I am excited about, we've mentioned a lot, personalization. I am excited about AI tools being able to help us drive a much deeper level of personalization, which will get across the... "Janey lives in New York and she's X age and she seems to buy these items,", and really be able to get underneath the totality of who somebody is to give me a deeper personalized experience.
Oliver Chen:
Part of that, as we see it, is understanding the context of the consumer and putting together multiple data points. However, this will have different collaboration challenges, particularly with, perhaps, your healthcare history and what you're willing to disclose, how you buy things across different retailers. But it has a potential, especially in a world where everything's available to everyone all at once. How do you drive assistance and curation, and also bring out the best in beauty products or clothing, or other aspects that you didn't know you needed or wanted. A tough problem, but how do you fix department stores? What does your dream store look like? And zooming out, how should physical meets digital look?
Mindy Grossman:
Well, I think it all has to be integrated. You look at some of the new store... I'd love to go visit, but one of the retailers that's doing very well, for example, is Aritzia, right? They just opened their biggest flagship in Canada. When you kind of do the walkthrough of that, it's got all elements of it. It's got hospitality, it's got really interesting ways to shop. It integrates digital. I think we have to be thinking in a broad way, and we've seen different iterations over the course of years when RH went into the hotel business.
But I think you need to create a reason for somebody to want to have an experience, not just buy a product. Because if they have a great experience, they're ultimately going to buy a product, assuming you've got the great products. But I also think we have to really look at service, really look at relationship of service, particularly certainly luxury. But beyond luxury, how are you creating relationships with who's coming in? We talked about Dick's earlier. They call their consumer their athletes, and they educate all of their people on how to have the conversations to understand what each of these athletes want to do. So I think it's a combination of all of these things that have to change the dynamic.
Oliver Chen:
Certainly having the frontline of retail has all to do with sales expertise and engagement, and that matters so much. Janey, so Walmart has a fabulous eCommerce business, but it's still not profitable. And there are definitely parts of Target business that are not profitable. What happens of this over time, and driving profitability in this historically lower margin digital channel?
Janey Whiteside:
Look, I think you need to look at the business at its totality. And eCommerce is a leg of that stool, and so you need a fizz. Five years ago, we were going to shut down stores because retail is dead and everybody's going to do stuff online. Or then we went through the ethos of, "Well, nobody's going to be able to get their stuff in the moment or quickly, because we just can't afford to add all the costs that are associated with forward deploying inventory, or getting it to people quickly." But then you move into the era that we're in now, where what does an eCommerce business give you? I mean, obviously extended aisle, it gives you proximity to customers in terms of, you don't have to have the inventory right in front of them in a store, or the people associated with that.
But it also yields all the data that you can then use to run an incredibly profitable retail media business, which if done right, actually goes back to providing other sorts of recommendations and experiences for the customers. It allows you to start to think about other elements of the business in different ways. And so if you think about eCommerce being a necessary leg of a stool, then I think it adds to the engagement of the customer. And again, the way to win the heart and the mind of the customers is to have what they want, when they want, how they want it, and where they want it. And so your ability to allow somebody to be shopping under the desk on eCommerce versus having to go to the store and do it, is what brings that customer to keep coming back to you.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah, the whole ecosystem, and also that relevance across, and also that multi-channel productivity. So final question for the awesome expert panel. Thank you, ladies, for your time. What are your own key themes for 2025, and which pieces of advice would you leave with business leaders who look to understand which businesses will hold a competitive advantage over the next five years?
Janey Whiteside:
I mean, I can start. I think my themes are simplification, simplification, simplification. I feel like I'm bombarded with so much information about all the things that I should be doing, that make me feel just nervous about things I am doing and things I'm not doing, and am I doing the right things? Am I doing the wrong things? So being able to simplify that, and having trusted people who can help me go through that journey and reduce that cognitive noise, is something that I'm obsessed with as it relates to who can do that and how can they do it.
And then, you've talked about it a lot, but I think businesses that really understand enough about their customer that they can win their hearts and minds and keep them coming back. I think that that is a combination of great product, great experience, and the word that you used multiple times, Oliver, which is trust. I trust you. I trust you to get it right. I trust you to know me. I trust you to have my back in the good times and the bad. So if something goes wrong, I know you're going to stand behind me. Those are the business life, and you're going to be super durable moving forward.
Mindy Grossman:
I would agree with everything Janey just said. I also think for leaders, they really have to be open to transformation. And I've always said, "If you're not willing to disrupt yourself, you'll be disrupted." And you have to be able to move at a pace where you empower your organizations to be able to move quickly, to embrace technology, but have it be extremely purposeful in terms of the relationship you're building with the consumer, with your brand.
Oliver Chen:
Well, that was a really amazing time with you. I think some really great themes came up here. Less can be more, in thinking about the future of retail in a more simplified but more complex and powerful way. What about being aspirational yet attainable, vision with radical focus, and inclusivity yet also being provocative. So it was great to spend time with you, Mindy and Janey, learning all about the future and what's happening in this evolution of what the customer really wants and needs and demands. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:
Thanks for joining us. Stay tuned for the next episode of TD Cowen Insights.
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Oliver Chen, CFA
Retail & Luxury Analyst, TD Cowen
Oliver Chen, CFA
Retail & Luxury Analyst, TD Cowen
Oliver Chen is a Managing Director and senior equity research analyst covering retail and luxury goods. Mr. Chen’s deep understanding of the consumer and his ability to forecast the latest trends and technological changes that will impact the retail space has set him apart from peers. Oliver’s broad coverage and circumspect view makes him the thought partner of retail and brand leaders. His coverage of the retail sector has led to numerous industry awards and press coverage from CNBC, Bloomberg, The New York Times, Financial Times, Barron’s, The Wall Street Journal and others. Mr. Chen was recognized on the 2018 and 2017 Institutional Investor All-America Research team as a top analyst in the retailing/department stores & specialty softlines sector. Mr. Chen was also selected as a preeminent retail influencer as he was named to the National Retail Federation (NRF) Foundation’s “2019 List of People Shaping Retail’s Future.” Considered an “industry expert,” Mr. Chen frequently appears as a speaker/panelist at key industry events. Mr. Chen is also an Adjunct Professor in Retail and Marketing at Columbia Business School, teaching the course “New Frontiers in Retailing” and was awarded recognition as an “Outstanding 50 Asian Americans in Business” by the Asian American Business Development Center in 2023 given his role in driving the U.S. economy.
Prior to joining TD Cowen in 2014, he spent seven years at Citigroup covering a broad spectrum of the U.S. consumer retail landscape, including specialty stores, apparel, footwear & textiles, luxury retail, department stores and broadlines. Before Citigroup, he worked in the investment research division at UBS, in the global mergers and acquisitions/strategic planning group at PepsiCo International, and in JPMorgan’s consumer products/retail mergers and acquisitions group.
Mr. Chen holds a Bachelor of Science degree in business administration from Georgetown University, a master’s of business administration from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, and is a CFA charterholder. At the Wharton School, Mr. Chen was a recipient of the Jay H. Baker Retail Award for impact in retailing and was a co-founding president of the Wharton Retail Club. He also serves as a member of the PhD Retail Research Review Committee for the Jay H. Baker Retailing Center at the Wharton School. Mr. Chen was recognized in the Wharton School’s “40 Under 40” brightest stars alumni list in 2017.
Mr. Chen’s passion for the sector began at the age of 12 when he began working with his parents at their retail business in Natchitoches, Louisiana.