Lead With Purpose and Co-Create with New Generations - PacSun

Speaker 1:
Welcome to TD Cowen Insights, a space that brings leading thinkers together to share insights and ideas shaping the world around us. Join us as we converse with the top minds who are influencing our global sectors
Oliver Chen:
Purpose and vision, it's the future of retail. Welcome to the Retail Visionaries podcast series where we spotlight bold thinkers and brands reshaping the future of retail. I'm Oliver Chen, TD Cowen's New Platforms, Retail and Luxury analyst. This episode we're excited to dive into brand building and marketing with the focus on the Generation Z consumer. I'm thrilled to welcome Brieane Olson. She's the CEO of Pacific Sunware or PacSun. It's an innovative digital-first purpose-driven company and it has a very purpose-driven leader, Bri. Bri served as president of PacSun since 2021 and transitioned to the CEO role in April of 2023. Bri, it's a pleasure to have you here and I also love having you so involved with the future of retail at my class at Columbia as well. Thank you.
Brieane Olson:
Thank you, Oliver, for having me and I have really enjoyed the students. It's been a fantastic experience.
Oliver Chen:
Bri, so you've been a model in terms of being hugely successful and resonating with Generation Z as well as doing a lot of your own independent research here. What makes PacSun different and what core competencies would you highlight?
Brieane Olson:
I think what really sets us apart is our deep commitment to the youth. We are committed to building with them versus just creating for them, and I think that that philosophy of co-creation really sets us apart from the competitive set. We've always believed that purpose and authenticity are really core to what Gen Z and Gen Alpha care about, and we know that the consumer wants to be reflected in the brands that they support. And so that has been a huge commitment from PacSun and my leadership team. So from co-creation to giving young voices a real seat at the table and constantly finding ways to innovate together, those are a few of the things that PacSun is doing differently.
We're also really not afraid to push boundaries, so whether that's through being a pioneer in social commerce and live shopping or collaborating with creators and making them designers of our collection, we're really kind of reimagining what retail looks like and making our stores cultural hubs and experiential, exploring technology and AI and understanding how they can really enhance our connection with our consumer. Really our unique ability and our strength lies in our ability to reimagine the future alongside the consumer instead of for them.
Oliver Chen:
Bri, I also attended your Purpose Summit where I learned a lot. What have been some of your key conclusions in the research you conducted on Generation Z? You also have some really unique features, including your panel of very engaged consumers, could you tell us about that?
Brieane Olson:
Yeah. Thank you so much for attending the PacSun Purpose Summit. It was our first summit where we unveiled our PacSun Youth Report, which was powered by GlobalData and Neil Saunders, and we went out and asked 6,000 Gen Z and Gen Alpha consumers to really more deeply understand the why in terms of the behavioral and shopping shifts that we're seeing and the emotive feelings behind, how is this generation really different from prior generations? And I do think there's some misconceptions about Gen Z and not enough focus on Gen Alpha. And so the purpose of the research was really to get under the covers and see what's really happening and understand the why and then share that as a free resource for everyone so that together in the spirit of purpose and community, we can better understand these future generations that will be guiding all of us in the future.
A few of the things that we're key takeaways or for me as I looked at the data and the research was mental health is core to what Gen Z and Gen Alpha really care about. They are not afraid to talk about their mental health. They care deeply about their mental state and it's more important than even academics or their physical health. And so that's one of the things that PacSun has been hyper focused on and aligns with what we've been seeing in our own business with our participation in the Rare Impact Fund and how we've been partnering with Selena Gomez to reinforce the importance of purpose and wellness to these generations. Another big unlock in terms of the research was how important music is to this younger generation. It's more important than even fashion or social media and the youth and Gen Z say music is what most shapes their identity.
And I think PacSun has been participating in meaningful ways in different festivals, whether that be Outside Lands or our work at Gov Ball or things we've done outside of Coachella. But really understanding that music is a defining key element for identity over fashion and over social media was another interesting unlock. Lastly, I would say just the scale of creator ambition. We all know that being a creator is incredibly important and is evolving space, but I think the fact that one out of five youth want to be a content creator and it's driving their purchases in particular of buying clothing to create specific content for them is a reminder that social platforms are reshaping both aspiration and style. And I would argue that social platforms are becoming commerce channels and that's why it's so important to pay attention to this space and to pay attention to the true ambitions of these future generations.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah, that was so enlightening. I think this aspect of do-it-yourself and also this aspect of personal style and how it may intersect with what's culturally relevant and the evolution of that is so important. We're also focused on mental health and wellness and we run a flagship conference on wellness. What do you think retail should do about this mental health challenge/opportunity to help in the industry? What's the future of the store look like or products when you think about mental health?
Brieane Olson:
First and foremost, the way that I think about business is that we have an incredible social responsibility that goes well beyond the confines of how people traditionally thought about business. And if you think about the conscious capitalism mindset and the way that pioneers in this space such as John Mackey from Whole Foods and Doug Rauch from Trader Joe's have kind of led, we all have to take from a leadership standpoint and a brand standpoint, a much bigger stance in terms of aiding the future generations and addressing social issues. I think with a clear focus on a mental health, there's a lot of different ways that we can approach it.
First of all, from a PacSun perspective, data and a true understanding of the generation are key, and then allowing them to have their own voices. We, for example, established a youth advisory council, a group of 13 people that are Gen Z and Gen Alpha that are actually advising myself, my leadership team, and our board in terms of how do we best address these mental health issues and how can we better serve, because no better than working with the youth themselves to come up with strategies and a deeper understanding and community plans.
And another reason that we had the Purpose Summit was to draw in partners either that we work with or that we don't work with from the local communities to say, "Hey, let's a light and a focus on the data and the research and then let's work together to find solutions. So I think we've got to be solution oriented. We need to use and leverage the opportunity to partner with Gen Z and Gen Alpha to come up with what those solutions states look like and brands have to work better together really in the sense of a community. And then that partnership mindset versus competition.
Oliver Chen:
Bri, you're also a brand person and you love product just as much as I do. What's your favorite part of the assortment and how it looks now? And that dovetails also, you have a very impressive background across retail including Valentino, Abercrombie and Fitch and the PacSun of today. Tell us about that too.
Brieane Olson:
A few of the partnerships I say I'm most proud of that our incredible team and talent has brought to fruition are some of the partnerships that have been most unexpected from a brand like PacSun. And there's really a new view of PacSun when you think about the brand partnerships we've had the last 10 years, whether it is our partnership with artistic creative director, ASAP Rocky and what he was able to bring to life or the work we did with Emma Chamberlain or Kendall and Kylie. But most recently, I'm most proud of our partnership with the Metropolitan Museum of Art. I think it's really unexpected in the coolest way, and we're on year three of that. And it is a testament to the fact that art reaches and can cross across multi generations. It has a very broad appeal and people want to reflect the way they present themselves to the world through art and through an association with creativity, innovation, and fine art.
And so that's been a real surprise.
Secondly, our partnership with Formula 1, which is going on almost four years, we will be activating in Austin this weekend, track side for the fourth year in a row, but has been just tremendously successful in terms of taking what was a more unknown sport five years ago and bringing it to more audiences, bringing it forward to the youth and doing it through the lens of fashion and style. And I think some of these types of partnerships that are more unexpected probably do hark from my background in luxury. I studied fashion design and styling in Milan at Istituto Marangoni. I took a role within Marzotto Group working for Matteo Marzotto when they had the acquisition of Valentino, which I worked very closely on.
And I think having a deep respect for the art of fashion and for the history of how trends actually come to fruition have also led us to more interesting partnerships like what we did with Yohji Yamamoto last year, we worked with their youth lens brand called WILDSIDE by Yohji Yamamoto and brought it to fruition for our customer through Formula 1. So it was a PacSun Formula 1, Yohji Yamamoto WILDSIDE collaboration. And I think it's really great to be able to bring different views and perspectives through these interesting perspectives that kind of bridge the kind of a luxury high end with more of the youth fashion style.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah, that's an amazing synergy in terms of unexpected, delightful, also very elevated yet democratic. You're also well-known for denim and you've done a great job with low rise. What's happening in that category? How important is it as a percent of mix and what are your thoughts on the opportunities ahead? You've been fast to execute quickly on up trending styles, but there's a lot of different styles she likes today.
Brieane Olson:
You're right that denim has been a stronghold for PacSun over the last 10 years and over the last two to three years, we've had an incredible acceleration in terms of our denim market share. And a large part of it was being early on the baggy low rise trend, which was our Casey Astrid jean that went viral on TikTok. And we saw an incredible trickle-down effect from the TikTok shop and commerce. I think when we think about where denim is today, it really is about a range of having a range of different silhouettes in the repertoire. And one of the fits that we're paying attention to that has been emerging but slower to emerge is the boot fit and the mini flare. And those are definitely ideas that we're watching in terms of the trend curve. And I think it's exciting to see that the customer is willing to also look at a variation of rises.
So low rise has been the dominant rise for the last two and a half years within our mix, certainly penetrating more than 50% of market share. And we're seeing through social listening, through talking to our brand ambassadors in the stores, we're seeing a large desire to have low rise in the mix, but to also have mid-rise, high rise, and have variations also in terms of leg opening. And I think on the men's side we're seeing something similar. The super ultra baggy is definitely up trending, but then there's some cleaner fits that we're seeing come through and some excitement happening in casual bottoms as well.
Oliver Chen:
That's been super exciting. And I think you've been agile in terms of embracing social. It's a great topic as well. Social commerce and TikTok-ification are key things we think about and I get addicted to every night. How are you approaching TikTok? You've been really innovative and what have been your learnings from that TikTok or any surprises you've seen in embracing that?
Brieane Olson:
Yeah, so I unfortunately share your same addiction and really over index on the amount of time I spend on the platform, especially late at night. But it has led to some really tremendous unlocks for on TikTok started in late 2019, early 2020, and in the first 18 months we amassed 2 million organic followers. And that runway was really a belief that TikTok would become more than a social media platform. TikTok, when we were thinking about it three, four years ago, was not a replacement to IG or Meta. It really was an entertainment platform. And we knew by 2022 that it had the potential to be even more than entertainment. And we started to take a really big bet in building the back end infrastructure of what is now TikTok shop. And we were one of the first two apparel brands to be in the kind of testing phase.
And I would say the key learnings were two. The first was you have to have a lot of patience for things that are new and you have to have a belief in the long term that is driven by meet your customer where they are. And I would say at PacSun, even though our initial sales for the first 12 to 14 months on TikTok shop were shallow and were lean and were not what we had hoped, we stayed hyper-focused. We continued to engage on the platform, we leveraged all the tools within the platform because we knew, "Hey, this is where the Gen Z and Gen Alpha consumer are spending their time, and eventually it will click." And fast-forward to Black Friday of 2023 when Lyla Biggs, a creator who had just qualified for the Open Creator Platform having 5,000 followers, went to her local store in Nashville, bought a pair of PacSun jeans, came back to her bedroom and made a video that went viral. Within hours, we'd sold 11,000 pairs of the jeans just through Lyla.
And it has now led us to a point today where we will have sold a million pairs of jeans on the TikTok shop platform by the end of December 2025. And so I would say the patience, the belief in partnering with your community kind of eliminating some of the former thoughts around who your customer should be and opening it up to everyone that does love your brand and your consumer. So kind of releasing some of those controls that brands have held onto so meticulously and having a more inclusive environment and empowering these creators to help story tell alongside the brand have been huge learnings and lessons for our brand and huge unlocks in terms of how to really drive meaningful revenue on the TikTok and social commerce channels.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah, I met Lyla and her mom too, and she has an amazing story and very authentic, deep love and connection, and I think that really shows and also is a real testament to this community like importance and the future of retail. The other question I had, I began my career 20 years ago or longer walking the mall checking PacSun stores. What about the PacSun of today versus the PacSun of yesterday? What are highlights? And the mall has some beautiful malls and some awful malls, but the great malls are still great.
Brieane Olson:
Yeah, we've made a lot of changes over the last 20 years that I've been with the brand. And I'm going on 18, 19 years with PacSun, and we started very much in the surfskate industry and we have tremendous respect for our surfskate legacy and roots, but we have evolved alongside our consumer and that evolution has led us to become a lot more than a fashion brand. We are a purpose-driven culture-first brand that really lives at the intersection of music, fashion, sports, and the arts. And that's a very intentional choice. Those four pillars for us really define how do we pick the next brand collaboration, what do we stand for and what do we not stand for? And it's created a lot of clarity for our teams in terms of, how do we go about our assortments? What do we want to stand for? And how can we reach globally and really focus on meeting the customer where they are within those four pillars and creating experiences that are meaningful for them?
And so the PacSun of today when you walk in has a range of brands from Fear of God Essentials to John Galt to Formula 1, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, but you won't find a Billabong collaboration, you won't find a Volcom T-shirt, you will find a UFC shirt, you will find a circulate marketplace that honors diverse voices and is shining a spotlight on emerging brands and designers. And so it's a very different mix. Some of the things that we're also most proud of is PacSun the label, which accounts for almost 50% of our assortment and is growing. And a big part of that is our real take on denim that is fashion forward, great quality, and still an affordable price for the consumer.
And so we've really built the PacSun brand based off of denim first and evolved into other categories. But PacSun today versus 15, 20 years ago is now known as the brand on her favorite pair of jeans. It is now the place that they get their favorite sweatshirt that is PacSun branded, and they also get a chance to buy a really cool pair of New Balance sneakers and get a pair of socks from the Metropolitan Museum of Art and perhaps pick up something from Edikted. So yeah, you've got the socks. So it's a nice range and it's really, I think a reflection of a lifestyle brand that is really a mirror to the community where they're alongside us.
Oliver Chen:
Brandy Melville's an important great partnership too. How do you evaluate which ones you should partner with and grow together in terms of curating and not having too much stuff?
Brieane Olson:
Yeah, it's a great question. And I think our talent pipeline at PacSun and Richard Cox, who runs our merchandising and design functions, does a really great job of creating meaningful lasting relationships with our brand partners, ensuring that we have a pipeline that we are focused on in terms of new and emerging, and that we're also a place where brands can build over time. And Brandy, for example, has been a great partner for over 12, 13 years, and that brand has grown with us similar to Jerry Lorenzo and Fear of God Essentials, that has grown with us over the last decade plus. But within the mix, always having those young emerging designers and brands, one of those will take off. And so we spend an inordinate amount of time and focus really looking at the pipeline and ensuring that we have enough of the young emerging community-based brands and are giving them opportunities they might not otherwise have at large retailers to get their voice and their brand known.
And another example of that is LAFC, who you heard from Rich Orosco at LAFC on our panel in terms of brands. And it's a younger football club within the LA range, and we've been able to put their product in all of our stores across the nation, not just in Los Angeles. And we shared at the Purpose Summit that some of our best performance happened in the Midwest. Their best top performing store was Mall of America. So I think really being known as a place also for discovery and finding a brand or a partner that you didn't know about has been really key as well to our strategy.
Oliver Chen:
That's such an important part of retail with the innovation and also taking the long run in terms of partnership with innovation that you see and curate. We'd love to hear about your store footprint. What does it look like now and what do you see happening with e-commerce mix? And part two of this, Bri is balancing growth and profitability. What are your philosophies there?
Brieane Olson:
Yeah, so for the first time in over a decade, we are growing our store footprint. Back in 2014, we had over 900 stores and over time we got that down to what we thought was a very healthy spot of just over 300 stores. In the last 12 months, we've opened 11 stores including a new flagship in Flatiron, New York, a great store in Century City, a store in Southern California, UTC, and a range of stores across the nation. So where there are great malls where PacSun's not present, we have taken an eye of saying, "Hey, let's make sure that we're showing up and offering our customer that experience that they're looking for." I would say that's also backed by data. Over the last 12 months, our store traffic has been up double digits versus the average mall of being down low single digits. So our customer, through a myriad of reasons, our brand affinity, what we're doing with social commerce is trickling down to a result in significantly improved store traffic patterns.
And so we're seeing also through the youth report that although this generation absolutely is digitally native and savvy and they are looking at new ways to connect from a commerce standpoint like TikTok shop, they are increasingly drawn to experiences, whether that's a music festival, whether that's going into the store and having a really great opportunity to be styled by a great brand ambassador there, they're looking for that experiential moment. And so we're building our store fleet. We plan to open another 25 stores over the next 18 months, and we're also expanding globally. To the second part of the question, really balancing growth and profitability means investing where our community is most engaged and staying disciplined about our long-term value. So as retail is evolving rapidly, social commerce is growing, creator-driven commerce is growing and borderless shopping is growing. We've made some pretty significant investments in terms of our AI infrastructure, building ecosystems and ways for the customer to shop with us in a more autonomous way are things that we're investing in and then also in our own physical store footprint growth.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah, that's a great segue. You and I work at together or teach together at Columbia on artificial intelligence as well, and you have the AI Council. Which ways has AI impressed you most or least? And what's your vision for the council? The other consideration I definitely have is this need for codes of conduct and ethics as well, but we're also just trying to get the basics of AI working for retail as well.
Brieane Olson:
Absolutely. I think AI in terms of a learning curve is going to be continuous. And about 24, 26 months ago, I visited the Digital Institute at Harvard called D^3, and I spent a full day immersed in what does the future of AI look like? And it was that combined with a lot of curiosity prior to that to really unlock. We have to embrace AI for all the good that it can create and allow it to amplify our opportunities in the future or we will be left behind. And I use with my team the example of Blockbuster versus Netflix because it is a very particular point of inflection where leaders and companies have to have alignment, they have to have permission to explore, and they have to know that in that exploration, you will get more wrong than you will get right at the beginning. And so that's where the AI Council came from.
We had an eighteen-month road when we started it. It requires all of our leadership team to be fully vetted and a part of the AI Council so that it's not just left to the technology division or to our IT department to spearhead what AI needs to look like by department. And our CTIO, Shirley Gao, who is just an incredible leader and very patient, has been on the forefront of this. And now it really is integrated into our day-to-day. We are constantly exploring and evaluating new different services from AI. And I would say the adoption rate at best is 50/50, at best, and that's okay. I think that a 50% adoption rate of saying, "Hey, we will pilot this. We're going to try it. Let's see." And then there's also that piece that I was talking about before in terms of how we went on TikTok early is patience. And so it's a combination between those two.
But I would say with agentic AI, things are moving at an even quicker rate. And so now there's a huge focus for us in terms of AI is going to shift and act with purpose. So we're moving from AI as insights to now action and creativity and execution and agentic AI will empower PacSun to move at the speed of culture, which is completely integral to our purpose. But there's a lot of watch-outs and we have to be really careful in terms of what we do and how we do it, and we have to be exploratory and we have to think about how does it really translate to value for our consumer? And so I think agentic AI can translate insight into real-time action with the Youth Report, in the future with youth data, it could come up with different variations of programs or campaigns that we should be putting into action in live time.
There's ways to think about how agentic AI can turn co-creation into continuous collaboration, how it can give our brand and communities the way to act together and intelligently and in real time. But it's going to also to your point, take a lot of discipline in terms of ensuring that we're using it correctly, that we're also still celebrating, that it won't replace our own creativity, but multiply it. And so I would say we're still early, but we're starting to see adoption happen and we've got to move quickly.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah, there'll be a lot of fun things that can happen, like a PacSun agent that works with the Gen Z panels and loyalty program.
Brieane Olson:
Yes.
Oliver Chen:
And we do believe in, I have guides and 101s on how our views on agentic AI, specifically this move to prescriptive analytics and the move to using optimization and adaptation and also the speed factor. What about boring, but really useful AI with inventory management and fulfillment? Have you seen rewards there, and/or what are your priorities for that part of your business and the supply chain? Actually, it's been tremendously volatile what's been happening there.
Brieane Olson:
We have put a lot of emphasis over the last, I would say 18 months specifically against inventory, planning, merchandising, and a program called Monday Smart. And I would say we have not yet seen the benefits of the investments against inventory, but we're starting to see the green shoots, and so we're starting to see what we believe will be a powerful unlock in terms of really optimizing our inventory and being much more thoughtful in terms of merchandising and the planning process. But I do think it has required more time, more patience and a lot more support from our internal teams to coalesce into well-established AI programs that are well known in that space. And so it's not like a turnkey solution where we might have thought like, "Okay, we're going to go with this amazing system and we're just going to be able to turn it on." It has required a significant amount of effort and lift, and I would say we're on the cusp of being able to see some nice results there.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah, I think the message and the opportunity AI has to be so tailored really to unique context on the specific use cases. But that being said, of course, if you can remove safety stock and also if you can get the right stuff to the right place at the right time, you get fuller price selling and happier customers. So it would be interesting to watch that. Which part of the job is most fun to you and which part is less fun?
Brieane Olson:
I would say the people part I really enjoy. I have a very unique executive leadership team, and we've been together most of us for almost a decade, and so I really enjoy the people that I work with and the ability to build this incredible team. The part I love the most is actually the volatility and the generation that we speak to is changing so rapidly. I think a lot of leaders feel overwhelmed by Gen Z or Gen Alpha, and I am so inspired by this future generation. It's one of the reasons that I wanted to do the research. It's one of the reasons that I have stayed at a youth-centered brand for almost two decades. I find the idea that these generations are evolving and changing, to be so interesting and to better understand them deeply I think is such an unlock to understand our future as a whole, not just PacSun and our brand.
And so I find that part incredibly inspiring. I consider myself very fortunate because I wake up and do what I love every day. And so as I've evolved into the CEO role, one of the things that I did have concerns about was missing out on spending more time with product. And I think that rings true today. I do miss spending the majority of my time on product and trends, but I think it comes back to if you hire talent and put people in roles that you have tremendous trust in, then it's such a joyous view of watching them succeed. And I think that's been my biggest surprise.
Instead of feeling like, "Oh, I wish I could spend more time on product." I'm just so incredibly proud of the team's leading product today, and I think that's the part that I thought would be the most difficult two, three years ago as I stepped more out of a product role. We're still a product company, so I'll always be involved, but into spending more time on supply chain and tariffs and logistics. It's really being able to watch those teams thrive. And I think that that's the most beautiful thing in leadership is when, and it's no different than with your students, when you watch this incredible success story in front of you in someone that you're really invested in, I think that that is, it's really special.
Oliver Chen:
I was with Terry Lundgren last night and this morning, and part of his message on leadership as well is it's a lot about the people who got you here and are getting you here, and those that you surround yourself with, I like them to be smarter than me and-
Brieane Olson:
Always.
Oliver Chen:
To see that as a wins. Last question. So for someone new to PacSun, what do you hope they understand or take away about your brand and what it represents?
Brieane Olson:
Yeah. I think there's still a misconception that we are the PacSun from 10, 15 years ago. And so we are not just about surf and skate, we are about purpose. We are about our community. We are pioneering what it means to co-create with Gen Z, authenticity, and staying connected to the communities that we serve. And that means we're listening to the youth, we're collaborating with creators, we're experimenting with social commerce. We're on the forefront. We really are a breakthrough brand. And at our core, PacSun is about creating spaces and communities where young people can express themselves best. And so whether that's through unique collaborations with the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Formula 1, or our own PacSun product, we are much more than a fashion brand. We are a culture first brand community for the next generation.
Oliver Chen:
I want to ask one more now. How do you stay culturally relevant? You've been with the team for 20 years, but the pace of change is exponential for better or worse. So how do you stay relevant for the next five years? What are your tips and tricks or they don't exist maybe?
Brieane Olson:
I think the superpower is being intellectually curious, always having a deep-rooted curiosity, and that's about your consumer, it's about the evolving landscape, it's about technology, it's about innovation. It really, when you're truly curious, you will spend an over indexed amount of time trying to understand what's next. And I think that's really important. I think that that in the end, allows you to stay hyper connected to communities that you no longer are necessarily a part of through participation. And it puts you not also in an observation space because the beautiful thing about technology is it has connected all of us. Social listening is an incredibly important tool if you're willing to listen.
So I think listening and intellectual curiosity and then surrounding yourself with, and I think this is such a privilege, but the brightest minds in the industry, from music to sports to the arts to fashion, having this incredible community of people around you also kind of helps in that relevancy and understanding and feeding that curiosity. So PacSun Purpose Summit was such a great testament to that. When I look around at the incredible community PacSun has built, it is a lifeline of inspiration by that connectivity and that true, genuine relationship to say, "Hey, together we're figuring out what's next." So I think that's really inspiring. That's what keeps me hyper motivated, and that's what I love about my job.
Oliver Chen:
Well, Bri, it was so much fun to be engaged with you here and also to be part of this community, this thriving community of different stakeholders and to meet a lot of them and interact has been exciting too. Thanks for joining us today.
Brieane Olson:
Thank you so much. We really appreciate your support.
Speaker 1:
Thanks for joining us. Stay tuned for the next episode of TD Cowen Insights.