Moose Knuckles' Bold Vision for Luxury Outerwear

Voiceover:
Welcome to TD Cowen Insights, a space that brings leading thinkers together to share insights and ideas shaping the world around us. Join us as we converse with the top minds who are influencing our global sectors.
Oliver Chen:
A brand that's built for the bold, welcome to the Retail Visionary podcast series, a podcast about visionary ideas and people. My name's Oliver Chen. I'm TD Cowen's new platforms retail and luxury analyst. In this episode, we will explore how Moose Knuckles is redefining modern luxury outerwear through technical innovation, as well as bold brand storytelling, some of our favorite topics.
Today, we're thrilled to welcome Ellen Kinney. She's CEO of Moose Knuckles. Ellen Kinney is a global fashion executive and brand builder with more than 25 years of experience leading some of the industry's most recognized brands. As CEO of Moose Knuckles, she's responsible for shaping global strategy, international growth, and evolving one of Canada's most distinctive brands. Prior to Moose Knuckles, she was president and CEO of A.L.C, where she significantly grew company revenue, as well as profitability. Ellen, it's a pleasure to be here with you.
Ellen Kinney:
Oliver, thank you so much for that lovely introduction, and it's great to meet you in person and great to be here today. Thanks for having me.
Oliver Chen:
My pleasure. So when I think of Moose Knuckles, I think of refined style meets functionality, meets all the heritage and expertise of Canada as well. How would you describe the brand? What are some of the core pillars?
Ellen Kinney:
I think, in essence, we are unapologetically Canadian luxury in our own sense. And I think you kind of nailed it, we like to think of ourselves as refined meets raw, so it's just that irony of something unexpected with something luxurious at the same time. Our foundation is rooted in craftsmanship, our edge against our competition is design, and our personality is all bold and attitude.
Oliver Chen:
Okay, great. R-squared, raw, refined. What do you mean by unapologetic?
Ellen Kinney:
I don't know if you've followed this brand from its launch, but our founders have a long lineage in outerwear, one of the multi-generational. And there were well-established outerwear brands on the scene when this brand launched. Canada Goose, very respectably, has built a great reputation for itself, a great business. So in order to break into the outerwear scene and make such a splash, they were a little bold, so they did things a little bit differently. Really, we're not trying to fit in, we're trying to stand out, so that's what we mean by bold and unapologetic.
Oliver Chen:
Diving right in, what does innovation mean to you? How do you think about continuing to be unapologetic, yet very commercial?
Ellen Kinney:
Innovation, we feel, should really improve the consumer's experience, not just create a headline or something to put on the label. So we really believe in using better fabrics, but fabrics of honest integrity that are resilient, but also comfortable, also versatile, and design-driven as much as they are performance-driven. That's really what we invest in as far as innovation's concerned.
Oliver Chen:
Ellen, who is your competition? Where do you sit usually in stores? I see a lot of attractive distribution globally when I check the stores, and a very distinctive brand. But who is your customer as well, for those who are less familiar?
Ellen Kinney:
Thank you. The distribution is intentional. We really look to quality rather than quantity. We don't want to be everywhere, we want to be in the right places, and I think that is something that resonates with our consumer. Our consumer... Well, firstly, for your question about the competition, we really don't think of ourselves as competing with others. Although we have partners in the outerwear category fields, we compete with ourselves. Canada Goose has its lane, Moncler has theirs, Mackage has theirs, Moose's attitude. So we really like to try to think that we're building something different. Our customer, again, they're not trying to fit in, they're looking to stand out. So they're bold, culturally relevant, inspired by luxury or are wearing luxury, defined by craftsmanship, and have a strong appreciation for design and love the attitude.
Oliver Chen:
I mean, I always think being culturally relevant is important, as well as very dynamic. What's culturally relevant today differs, and it's always changing. What does that word mean to you in the context of how you're running this business and how you think about different aspects of marketing, as well as storytelling and lifestyle?
Ellen Kinney:
That's a great question. I think that great brands don't chase culture. They build it or they contribute to it. We focus on exceptional product integrity, authentic storytelling. We really believe in co-creation over celebrity, and the partnerships, in essence, feel natural. It's really important to us. And that's how we build long-lasting relevance and how we will drive our future.
Oliver Chen:
What's been the hardest part?
Ellen Kinney:
Discipline, and also one of the most important parts. I think there's a lot of temptation these days to try to go after everything, but we're doing the opposite. We're, if anything, trying to focus and stay in our lane and be the best brand that we can, being ourselves rather than chase others' businesses or others' categories.
Oliver Chen:
And then, as you dive into that, are there some examples of making sure you're focused as they apply to how you're making decisions or your product portfolio?
Ellen Kinney:
Sure. It's a touch point in every single part of our business, from ideation initially and choosing what big ideas we're going after, to product development, to a focused fabric strategy, to building better inventory, better planning, better execution, focused marketing, and focused partnerships, and even back to what you were saying about distribution, showing up in the right places, not trying to show up everywhere.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah. That leads to another important topic for everybody in our fun world of retail. How are you thinking about channels and the mix, and what's your longer-term thinking on what's best for the brand?
Ellen Kinney:
Something unusual about this brand, I think, in our age timeline and how long we've been around, which is a little over 16 years, we've gone from being native wholesalers exclusively to a largely DTC-driven brand, and we love both channels. I think DTC is really important, because it's where you show the world of and who the brand is. But our wholesale partners are very valued and important to us because it's discovery outside of our channel. But I think the common thread through both businesses is that we always show up like ourselves.
Oliver Chen:
And running stores, I mean, stores are near and dear to my heart. Obviously, some of our favorites and my favorites are Selfridges in London, and the curation that Bloomingdale's or others can drive. When you're doing your own stores, what are the key points you're trying to underscore what's happening now in your stores?
Ellen Kinney:
I think there are so many people in retail doing interesting things. Gentle Monsters is one of our favorite brands to see what they're doing from a retail experiential perspective. They're so well-done. For Moose Knuckles, it's a bit different. Really, we're all about the product and we're very product-first, so we create an environment and our new store direction is very much like a gallery-type experience, but warm, warm and cold, actually. So it's just creating an atmosphere that houses and highlights the product, where the customers feel comfortable and at home in their environment.
Oliver Chen:
I like the Gold series too, because I like everything gold, but what are we supposed to think about with the brand structure and what makes sense? Because you also can be too confusing to customers.
Ellen Kinney:
Agree. Our Gold series is really our top tier product. The logo is actually a gold-plated logo within gold. And again, coming on board just a year ago, almost to the day, focus was something that I mentioned was very important and purpose is very important, and the purpose of Gold is, again, really just a more elevated or the most elevated end of what we do from a product perspective.
Oliver Chen:
What about yourself, Ellen, why did you do this? You're great at clothing. Actually, outerwear is totally exciting because the economics can make sense. And it's been a rough ride in fashion. This kind of crap captures a lot. But why Moose Knuckles for your career?
Ellen Kinney:
It's something very different for me, which excited me. I love change and I love newness and I love learning. Outerwear with this brand is its authority, but lifestyle is the opportunity, and I think that's the most exciting piece. We're looking to build Moose Knuckles into one of the world's most distinctive brands. I think we're just getting started. But foundationally, even though we're so nascent in our growth path, this brand's got a lot going for it. Right from the onset, it resonated globally, so our business is really evenly divided globally between Europe, North America, and Asia as well.
Oliver Chen:
And how do you balance that, Ellen, on lifestyle and fashion relative to timelessness?
Ellen Kinney:
I think quality and performance are timeless, and I think continuing to keep our customer guessing about what's next is what's exciting to them.
Oliver Chen:
I mean, where are you with fashion and runway, and also telling that story? Is that important in this category?
Ellen Kinney:
It might be for others. For us, our runway is real life. It's being on real people and people wearing our product organically, posting about it organically, and co-creation, and I think that's what resonates most with our consumer today is that authenticity. Obviously, I love runway, and when I started my career in fashion, runway was everything, it was really important. And I think it's, at this point, best left to legacy and heritage brands.
Oliver Chen:
As you dive into co-creation, which have been really important to me for decades as we think about the future of retail, and particularly it's of course important to Gen Alpha and Gen Z, but what does co-creation mean to you on a day-to-day basis and strategies that you're employing?
Ellen Kinney:
I think it goes back to being consistent as a brand, and understanding and knowing who we are and owning that, but letting, regionally, the retail stores have their own personality and the consumers have their own way of reacting to the brand. And that to me is what co-creation is, is understanding how different people interpret this brand, and ultimately the product and how they wear it.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah, that makes sense. And as you think about this job and everything you've seen and done, what's been your secret sauce, and what do you think your secret sauce is as a leader as well?
Ellen Kinney:
I think it's getting back to basics. It's hiring great people and getting out of their way, providing really clear direction for the objectives to the brand, and getting everybody working together towards the same thing. So it's really not magic, and I think that's where the lightning in the bottle comes from, is strong foundations.
Oliver Chen:
And as we think about balancing growth and profitability, could you speak to us a bit on supply chain inventory management and pricing? Those are actually different, but totally all connected. What are some key priorities or pillars or principles you have in balancing the big global opportunity relative to maintaining healthy margins?
Ellen Kinney:
I think, again, it goes back to the basics. I think it's all about discipline. I think it's about creating not a lot of product, just the right product for our consumer. And it's about listening to the consumer, and not only understanding what they want today, but what they might not even know they want or need next, and trying to stay ahead of that learning curve in a responsible way. And again, just staying in your lane and not trying to chase everything, and just being the best at what you do and what we do rather than trying to be better than everybody else.
Oliver Chen:
It's hard, Ellen. How do you create the right product? We've seen so many people fail at this together.
Ellen Kinney:
I think for Moose Knuckles, it was offering something different in the category than what others were doing at the time. It was something that felt a little bit more fashion-inspired and a little bit more modern and urban than just arctic or performance. I think another brand that's done it really well is Arc'teryx, how they've managed to grow. They're rooted in performance, but they've really become more of a fashion statement, and I think that's similar to how Moose Knuckles broke into the outerwear scene.
Oliver Chen:
Well, I love fashion, and I just wish I was completely doing fashion, but I'm here at this investment bank.
Ellen Kinney:
It's probably smarter, but we probably have a little bit more fun.
Oliver Chen:
Ellen, so then how do you do fashion at Moose Knuckles, and what are the inspiration points? And also, diving down that is the creative lane, where do you get your inspiration from? Because fashion, you talked about focus, but you're trying to create stuff people didn't know they wanted, but you can create different stuff that nobody wants.
Ellen Kinney:
True. And you're not going to get it right all the time, you just have to be right more than you're wrong.
Oliver Chen:
So what do you do?
Ellen Kinney:
But as far as inspiration, we find inspiration in everything every day. We find inspiration in our consumers. You talk about co-creation, that's essentially personalization. So we find inspiration in how our consumers are wearing the product, and what they're doing with our product, and where they're showing up in our product. We find inspiration in all of the cities where we have distribution. We also have corporate offices and headquarters in Milan, in Shanghai, in Seoul, in New York. Of course, our whole base is Montreal. So we find inspiration in all of these places that all inform the product and what we're building going forward.
Oliver Chen:
And it hasn't been easy sometimes for outerwear brands to build a lighter-weight product, footwear and glasses and other categories. How has that journey been for you?
Ellen Kinney:
I think Moose Knuckles has grown at a nice pace, and again, we always will be rooted, I think, in outerwear, but also providing what's underneath the hood and what feels right for the brand organically is where our growth opportunity is. It's really world of rather than just a category.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah. Okay. And would love to ask you about AI too. I mean, I teach a class at Columbia on AI as well.
Ellen Kinney:
Oh, really?
Oliver Chen:
How are you thinking about it? Yeah, it's great to co-create with students. But so much has been happening between magic and logic and the business models around LLM and computer vision. But what are your thoughts on AI?
Ellen Kinney:
It's the future. It's changing so fast. It's been fascinating for us to learn more about it and how we can best leverage its efficiency within our organization. I think what you just said about magic and logic is really important too, because I think AI is not thinking for you, but I think it can help streamline your thoughts and ideas, and certainly can streamline and speed the collection of data, and as a basis, the analysis of data. It's just another tool that we use. I don't think we would ever be completely reliant on AI, but I think it definitely is helping us become faster and more streamlined in data collection and analysis.
Oliver Chen:
What about managing product and speed, Ellen, in terms of markdowns and optimization? How do you do that and/or is it not as much of a risk given that your product can be somewhat evergreen?
Ellen Kinney:
We are becoming increasingly more evergreen, and I think about low-30s as a percent of our business is evergreen today. And I think there's more opportunity for that as well, because again, I think the quality and the performance is timeless. And we also like that as one of our forms of sustainability too, is building product that lasts, that's not just over in one season.
Oliver Chen:
Yeah, yeah. Okay. And final question, Ellen, what are the biggest risks and opportunities you see developing over the next three to five years? And any closing remarks you may have as well?
Ellen Kinney:
Risks and opportunities. Again, I think we're still relatively nascent and at the beginning of our runway and growth opportunity. I think we've got a strong foundation for our business, and now it's about building on top of that in a responsible way. I think the risk is always just the temptation to expand too fast or too broad, and again, I think that's where the discipline comes back into play, is growing at the right pace.
Oliver Chen:
What are you having the most fun doing?
Ellen Kinney:
This is a fun brand, and again, that's what's different from anything I've done in my past. It's a lot of fun, not just because it's an outerwear category and it's a different type of business, but because this is just a fun brand, it doesn't take itself too seriously, so that's really what I've enjoyed. We've also spent the past year restructuring and rebuilding the team, and we've got a fantastic team, a collaborative team. So when you talk about inspiration, I'm inspired by them every day and I learn something from them every day. So I just think the learning and the growth is what's going to be the most fun about working here.
Oliver Chen:
That's great. Well, congratulations. Very inspirational. Pleasure to be with you, Ellen.
Ellen Kinney:
Thanks, Oliver. It's a pleasure and an honor to be part of your series, and great speaking with you.
Oliver Chen:
My pleasure.
Voiceover:
Thanks for joining us. Stay tuned for the next episode of TD Cowen Insights.